Whirlpool Go to navigation
last updated –
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:45 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:45 pm AEST
User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/Rfaljw
posted 2018-Jun-6, 2:18 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-6, 2:18 pm AEST
O.P.

Are puddle flanges mandatory?

I have taken a look down the waste pipe of my shower and while its hard to tell the waste pipe from the tile insert seems stuck directly down onto the slab. Meaning water cannot escape the screed right?

Looking back at progress pics i also noticed there is definitely no puddle flange installed.

These are the tile inserts they used and i found the white mega flex bases or puddle flanges in the trash.

https://imgur.com/a/UJ4EEnw
https://imgur.com/a/8vji5Ok
https://imgur.com/a/MVV9Qqx

User #397400   21585 posts
In the penalty box
reference: whrl.pl/Rfalw2
posted 2018-Jun-6, 3:36 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-6, 3:36 pm AEST

Ours look like the second pic Cant tell whats under it as never saw it before tiles were fitted

User #290410   9907 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
reference: whrl.pl/Rfal8c
posted 2018-Jun-6, 7:55 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-6, 7:55 pm AEST

You dont seem to being having a very good run with your reno Auron.

Its too hard to tell from the photo alone, its not clear enough.

I dont know if its mandatory or not, but its pretty much a must for waterproofing, every waterproofer knows it. Only the cowboys/lazy ones would leave it out.

Auron89 writes...

Meaning water cannot escape the screed right?

Itll still escape through the tile glue and into the waste.

But if its screeded, you will never see it as the puddle flange would be at the bottom and the screed will cover the flange. What you could be seeing is the waste stuck to the screed, mistaking the screed for slab.

User #811464   1652 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
reference: whrl.pl/RfamJ3
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:05 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:05 am AEST

It doesn't look a puddle flange was used.

No it's not required by law.

Without one the waterproof still works, unfortunately the screed won't dry.

Speak to the builder as it looks like They have done the right thing and supplied the puddle flange to the tiler. I'm assuming tiler because a decent waterproofer will know not to throw it away.

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/RfamP9
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:21 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:21 am AEST
O.P.

2 Fast writes...

You dont seem to being having a very good run with your reno Auron.

No im not ... its annoying that the most stressful part of it all has been once i involved someone else. When it should have been the easiest and least stressful.

Is he required to give me a form 16 do you know?

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/RfamQe
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:22 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:22 am AEST
O.P.

Johnb1 writes...

Without one the waterproof still works, unfortunately the screed won't dry.

Speak to the builder as it looks like They have done the right thing and supplied the puddle flange to the tiler. I'm assuming tiler because a decent waterproofer will know not to throw it away.

How come it wont dry? If it can escape through the tile glue still it wont be ok?

There is no builder its a renovation, i've done everything myself except for the waterproofing and tiling and yes it was a tiler.

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/RfamRe
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:39 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 7:39 am AEST
O.P.

Also does anyone know if you need council approval in qld for a bathroom reno?

Haven't relocated any services or done anything structural.

User #811464   1652 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
reference: whrl.pl/Rfam4k
posted 2018-Jun-7, 9:36 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 9:36 am AEST

'How come it wont dry? If it can escape through the tile glue still it wont be ok?'

Where do you propose water will escape to? Evaporation, water doesn't flow upwards.

Fortunately it's not too late as you haven't tiled yet.

Just ask the tiler to grind out around the waste, install the puddle flange and then waterproof the small area that was ground out.

Alternatively, install puddle flange, screed and re-waterproof the whole screed before tiling.

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/Rfam5h
posted 2018-Jun-7, 9:43 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 9:43 am AEST
O.P.

Johnb1 writes...

Where do you propose water will escape to? Evaporation, water doesn't flow upwards.

That pic of the waterproofing was just a progress pic it is all fully tiled now.

Well if the water can get through the grout etc and into the screed drain across to the waste pipe and if its just tile glue holding the grate down with a gap between the actual slab.

Couldn't the water get into the drain still?

The only thing missing is the puddle flange ... as long as there was a gap between that tile drain pipe and the actual waste pipe then essential its the same thing. What im concerned about is the fact the tile drain pipe seems flush with the actual pipe.

User #427370   22981 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
reference: whrl.pl/RfanaH
posted 2018-Jun-7, 10:25 am AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 10:25 am AEST

2 Fast writes...

Itll still escape through the tile glue and into the waste.

It's hard to tell from that photo. If it's sealed into the plastic waste pipe there is no way for the water to escape.

But if its screeded, you will never see it as the puddle flange would be at the bottom and the screed will cover the flange. What you could be seeing is the waste stuck to the screed, mistaking the screed for slab.

He found the puddle flange in the bin. That would have to be pretty thick screed for that whole metal piece to be embedded in screed.

Auron89 writes...

Also does anyone know if you need council approval in qld for a bathroom reno?

From what I have researched you don't if you are not changing the structure. If you shift fittings around, the plumber needs to fill in a form 4 (I think) which notifies the council of the changes.

User #811464   1652 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
reference: whrl.pl/Rfantp
posted 2018-Jun-7, 12:09 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 12:09 pm AEST

http://bountybrassware.com.au/wp-content/uploads/installation_guide/InstallationGuide_BermudaMegaGrate_SQ-1b.pdf

It's not the end of the world if you don't use a puddle flange, however a puddle flange when installed at the lowest part of the screed will help drain the any water under the tiles faster.

Without a puddle flange, the shower won't leak but the screed will be damp for longer, i.e. damp smelling.

I should have asked first, concrete slab?

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/Rfanv3
posted 2018-Jun-7, 12:17 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 12:17 pm AEST
O.P.

Johnb1 writes...

I should have asked first, concrete slab?

Yes its a concrete slab. This is the reasoning the tiler has for not installing one. Said its basically pointless having one, but i cant see or feel any gap between the stainless pipe and the slab/pvc pipe so im worried how the hell the water gets out.

User #290410   9907 posts
Whirlpool Forums Addict
reference: whrl.pl/RfanIb
posted 2018-Jun-7, 1:21 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 1:21 pm AEST

Auron89 writes...

This is the reasoning the tiler has for not installing one.

Sorry mate but youre tiler doesnt know what hes talking about.

Johnb1 writes...

Without a puddle flange, the shower won't leak but the screed will be damp for longer, i.e. damp smelling.

Thats not correct, without a puddle flange there is risk of leak. A puddle flange is also known as a leak control flange.

Water will still drain regardless if its in or not, the purposes of a puddle flange is for waterproofing. Its provides a substrate between the floor and pipe to span over that interface. You cant rely on a layer of membrane alone to seal the gap between pipe and slab, as therell be movement and it may crack the membrane. The puddle flange eliminates this.

In OPs case the slab shouldve been rebated so the puddle flange can sit flush with the slab, then the membrane laps inside the flange.

Also if the grate is touching the pipe, there is a tiny risk* when you stand over the grate, you are putting pressure on the pipe, which overtime could lead to movement and tear in the membrane between pipe and slab.

*not fear mongering, you generally should be fine but this has happened when worksmanship is very poor.

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/RfanKO
posted 2018-Jun-7, 1:33 pm AEST
edited 2018-Jun-7, 1:38 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 1:33 pm AEST (edited 2018-Jun-7, 1:38 pm AEST)
O.P.

Yep unfortunately ... Just have no idea what to do. The job's complete and i haven't paid anything yet which is in my favour.

Just so over it all though, i don't know whether to bother bringing in QBCC etc or what ... i'm just so frustrated and sick of it.

I found this photo which shows it must be sealed down onto the slab

https://imgur.com/a/lVGzcgK

User #811464   1652 posts
Whirlpool Enthusiast
reference: whrl.pl/RfanT5
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:22 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:22 pm AEST

Auron89 writes...

The job's complete and i haven't paid anything yet which is in my favour.

Did the quote state waterproofing with certificate?

2 Fast writes...

without a puddle flange there is risk of leak. A puddle flange is also known as a leak control flange.

I think they are a great product and should always be used, not just for waterproofing.

However because it's on a concrete slab, there is less risk of damaging the waterproof membrane between slab and waste but that risk can that be reduced using a puddle flange.

The risks of leaking is significantly higher without a puddle flange if the floor was say timber rather than concrete slab. As I said I'd recommend one for concrete also for movement and a drier screed.

What also concerns me is that the tiler just through out the puddle flange.. I wonder what else he didn't do properly.

the insert grate is tight in the waste pipe then water under the tiles can't drain into the waste.

User #629850   311 posts
Forum Regular
reference: whrl.pl/RfanZi
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:45 pm AEST
posted 2018-Jun-7, 2:45 pm AEST
O.P.

Johnb1 writes...

Did the quote state waterproofing with certificate?

No unfortunately as orginally i thought they were mandatory. They also just state the job was done properly ... so if someone doesn't want to supply one then ... yeah sorta a bad sign isn't it.


Loosing Puddle Flange