Questions You Should Know about Shooting Game Arcade Equipment

This is something I have wondered for a while, and it may be a really dumb question, but are light gun games interchangeable in their cabinets? Like can you have an Area 51 cabinet, plug in a Revolution X or Terminator 2 JAMMA pcb in there and it just works? Or Virtua Cop? I guess with a game like RX or T2, those have grenade buttons and I don't recall Area 51 having anything like that on the gun, so I guess that could be a problem.

Or do you need to have specific hardware for the different games?

Just something I've always wondered. I'm looking at possibly snagging a Maximum Force cabinet.

If I were to do that, how do I know which games are "plug and play" with it? And for the games that aren't, like I don't know if VIrtua Cop is or not, is there a way to get some conversion kit to make the gun work with it?

And I know that games like Revolution X and Terminator 2 are more like analog joysticks under the gun on the cabinets, but what about those too? This is a case where MAME info is helpful. Revolution X and other mounted-gun games tend to use what is functionally an analog joystick as the gun. Maximum Force, on the other hand, uses an optical light gun. As far as stuff you could** put in, anything with an actual light gun. For convenience I would stick with 90's stuff. The gun itself typically plugs directly into the board. Offhand I can tell you that in a Max Force cabinet you should be able to run Lethal Enforcers (probably LE2 as well), Zero Point, Area 51 (There is a kit to make a board run both A51 and Max Force), Point Blank (teensy bit of rewiring on going between Happ and Namco guns but electrically compatible as long as you keep everything straight), Police Trainer, Deer Hunt USA and its similar SAMMY games (you will need to disable the shotgun reload but again the game can work with a happ 45 gun). Point is you have many options here. 90's operators were all about kitting games so you should be able to find stuff you like that will work.


** As with any JAMMA game, sometimes controls don't line up. Also note the resolution of your monitor (standard or medium res). Some games it is switchable on the board what res it outputs. Again, MAME comes in handy here. So is it possible to play Virtua Cop in a Maximum Force or Area 51 cabinet? I was trying to find Virtua Cop board sets on ebay but it seems like everything is a bunch of random boards and I don't understand what exactly is needed. I also saw they are like Model 1 or 2 boards for some Virtua Cop games, and does that mean it's another connector? Is there a JAMMA to Moddle 1 or 2 connectors? Or is it something completely different?

Ideally I would like to get a light gun cabinet and hook up some kind of multi jamma switcher on it. I saw a guy sold an Area 51 Site 4 cabinet on here and did just that, and it looked pretty awesome.

So is it possible to play Virtua Cop in a Maximum Force or Area 51 cabinet? I was trying to find Virtua Cop board sets on ebay but it seems like everything is a bunch of random boards and I don't understand what exactly is needed. I also saw they are like Model 1 or 2 boards for some Virtua Cop games, and does that mean it's another connector? Is there a JAMMA to Moddle 1 or 2 connectors? Or is it something completely different?

Ideally I would like to get a light gun cabinet and hook up some kind of multi jamma switcher on it. I saw a guy sold an Area 51 Site 4 cabinet on here and did just that, and it looked pretty awesome.

I used to own a Virtua Cop. Sega Model 2 isn't the same as JAMMA, it's its own proprietary hardware/wiring harness/pinout/etc. I think it's technically possible to get it all working on a JAMMA cab but it's not worth it IMO, it's more complicated than just throwing a converter on and you'll generally find that a working Virtua Cop cab sells for the same or less than just the boards and such (I got mine with one broken gun for about 200 and sold it for about 150).

I used to own a Virtua Cop. Sega Model 2 isn't the same as JAMMA, it's its own proprietary hardware/wiring harness/pinout/etc. I think it's technically possible to get it all working on a JAMMA cab but it's not worth it IMO, it's more complicated than just throwing a converter on and you'll generally find that a working Virtua Cop cab sells for the same or less than just the boards and such (I got mine with one broken gun for about 200 and sold it for about 150).

Okay thanks for the info. Those cabinets are way too big but I always did enjoy those games and thought it would be fun to try and add one into a multi cabinet if it was possible. But looks like it's not really possible.

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Retro_SA

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Guns & Mame - Some questions

« on: May 06, , 04:17:12 am » I'm planning on adding guns to my cabinet I'm busy building.  Just some quick questions...

- How many shooting games are there in Mame?  Not looking for the exactly number, just want to find out if it's worth doing it?
- Will one type of gun work for all games?  I see some games have extra buttons on the guns...
- How will a game like Time Crisis work, where you need the pedal as well?
- I'm guessing it will work through the perspex that's in front of the screen?   

Thanks.

Turnarcades

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #1 on: May 06, , 08:58:08 am » If you are not sure what games are available, you can't be that big a gun game fan so will probably not miss guns. As I mentioned to someone else earlier, think about what you will mostly play, rather than trying to add everything.

Unfortunately (particularly for a noob), the truth is there are very few light gun options at the moment and few seem to work well. The LCD TopGuns were the previous choice but have issues with compatibility, re-calibration and range - there is a thread about modifying them with a wide-angle lens to improve this but....

There is also the Aimtrak module, where you can modify an existing gun with the hardware module and is supposedly the current best offering. Again though it is still being tested in the field and may be a while before it's perfect. The problem for both these solutions is that for a noob who is unsure of how much they will be used and assumed nvice skill level, the cost of adding them and logistics of installing them (and their sensor bars) and setting them up correctly (plus making hardware modifications) could not be worth your time. However, to answer your questions:

- Probably around 50-100, of which less than half are worthwhile or work properly and even less are actually quality games Point Blank series takes the crown, with games like Time Crisis then classics like Operation wolf, Alien3 etc. all playing well. There are also PC games like \Virtua Cop 1+2 and House of the Dead and other games on PS1 (if you run that in your machine) that could be good, if you can set up the hardware right each time - some have compatibility issues.
- See above re compatibility, but most guns available have many shell-mounted buttons so no worries about that.
- See above answer - use one of the gun-mounted buttons for the pedal.
- Guessing is right. Even clear plexi will distort IR beams, particularly if the plexi is at an angle to the gun. You have to mount sensor bars with any gun, which can be tricky and can look very ugly if not done well.

Be warned, that's all I'm saying.

BadMouth

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #2 on: May 06, , 09:35:12 am » What type of screen are you using?

I'm using an old $30 act labs gun with a 32" CRT tv (s-video).
Been watching fleabay for a 2nd one.

It works perfectly on CarnEvil, Point Blank, Area 51, Maximum Force & about a dozen other
true light gun games.  Also works with House of The Dead.

It will not work with the gun games where the gun was originally just a gun mounted to the top of a joystick-terminator, aliens, etc. (at least not without some crazy calibration hassles & you can't spray bullets because the computer only knows where the gun is pointed at the instant you pull the trigger.  If the trigger is held in, all shots go to that spot no matter where the gun is pointing)

I've never been able to get it to work properly with the Sammy hunting games - Turkey Hunting USA, Big Buck Hunter, etc.  The shot is accurate in the center of the screen, but is off toward the edges.  If anyone has a fix for this, I'd be interested.

You do have to calibrate the gun every time you start a new game, but it only takes 20 seconds.
(flip a switch to calibrate & move the gun horizontally, then vertically across the screen)

It goes without saying that a real light gun won't work on an LCD screen.
If you didn't already know that much, I'd recommend doing a  lot more homework before buying anything.

« Last Edit: May 06, , 09:38:35 am by BadMouth »

nickynooch

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #3 on: May 07, , 03:01:22 pm » I've got the actlab guns as well and they work pretty well. « Last Edit: May 05, , 08:40:13 pm by nickynooch »

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #4 on: May 07, , 03:05:10 pm » its really worth it and I am getting an Aimtrak id try it first

Turnarcades

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #5 on: May 07, , 08:46:31 pm » Whatever you decide, you can tell by the mixed bag of answers it's not as clear-cut as other arcade control additions.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #6 on: May 07, , 08:50:29 pm » If someone was really into gun games and wanted Time Crisis games or other such games, I'd actually suggest, for simplicity and functionality sake, skip MAME and throw a PS2 into a cab on a CRT with component input.   Which is my plan to build a light gun cab someday.

Turnarcades

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #7 on: May 08, , 12:19:25 pm »

If someone was really into gun games and wanted Time Crisis games or other such games, I'd actually suggest, for simplicity and functionality sake, skip MAME and throw a PS2 into a cab on a CRT with component input.   Which is my plan to build a light gun cab someday.

Did that with my last cabinet usung G-Cons and my old PS1, purely for Point Blank and Time Crisis. I'm glad to say that Andy's Aimtrak design is based on these and if the setup and functionality is ironed out I will be getting some of these:

DJ_Izumi

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #8 on: May 08, , 03:00:36 pm » My idea for a PS2 cab would be a standard stand up type with say a 25" Trinitron with component input installed.  PS2 with an HDD and a pair of 8way with six button (Plus Start/Select) arrangements on the control panel.  Then mount female ports wired into the PS2 and two female RCA jacks fed from the luma channel on the face, below the CP to allow you to easily plug in Guncon2s.  So you'd have a cab that's primarily built for fighting games and the like but you can just plug in the guncons right into the front and fire up Time Crisis 2 or Vampire Night or Ninja Assault or something.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #9 on: May 09, , 02:01:36 pm » Hey Retro_SA, I feel that there's a good number of quality Mame light gun titles that justify a light gun purchase. Some notables are Sharp Shooter, Police Trainer, Point Blank 1/2, Bang!, Egg Venture, Lethal Enforcers I/II, Crypt Killer, Area 51/Maximum Force, Wing Shooting Championship and Trophy Hunting : Bear and Moose. In addition, I have the Virtua Cop 1 & 2, House of the Dead I & II and Big Buck Hunter. I have two Act Labs guns and I think they perform pretty well, although one of them works better than the other. I'd like to have a recoil/force feedback option with the guns. I haven't tried any other PC compatible light gun.

Like DJ_Izumi said, the PS2 is the console to have for light gun games (Time Crisis 1-3, Vampire Night, Point Blank 1-3, Ninja Assault...). The Dreamcast also has some good titles. I used to have a single cab w/all 3 in a single cab for my shooting fix. Good luck with whatever you decide.

DJ, if you read this, I actually purchased a component cable with Guncon input, but it doesn't work. The best quality (clarity-wise) I was able to find with a Guncon input a s-video cable, which looks better than the composite cable. May I ask where you found your Guncon-compatible component cable?

DJ_Izumi

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #10 on: May 09, , 03:10:29 pm » You don't NEED a special guncon cable.  The 'Guncon cable' is just a cable with the composite output spliced off to a second output.  You can get the sync signal from the green 'Luma' cable when using component.  For Guncon 1's I just jack the green cable into the yellow passthrough jacks on the Guncon 1's before connecting to the jacko on the TV.  For Guncon1's I use that T-shaped pass through cable and never had an issue.

I didn't even known that component PS2 cables with the composite guncon jack existed.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #11 on: May 09, , 04:24:04 pm » Anyone use the aimtrak behind smoked glass??

How does it work?

Thx Ms. Pacman Original Cocktail with Non destructive mod to Groovy Arcade Linux with All 4way Vertical Cocktail capable 2 button or less games.


Neo Geo MVS Mame Cab Running Hyperspin, 25" Nanao Arcade Monitor, Mini-pac, ATI Radeon HD (ATOM-15), IL 8 Way Euro-Sticks from Paradise Arcade, Win XP 64bit, and tons of other junk.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #12 on: May 09, , 06:50:58 pm » I got smoked glass and was wondering that too

Retro_SA

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #13 on: May 10, , 05:42:26 am » Thanks for all the replies.  Seems like it's not as easy as I thought it might be, so I'll rather leave it out for now.  I'm not such a big fan of shooting games anyways, just thought it will be a nice addition.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #14 on: May 10, , 07:31:08 am »
Talking about dedicated light gun cabinets what do you guys think about using the Wii as console?
I don't own one, but just noticed that there are quite a few interesting titles out there like Resident Evil etc...

Rusty Shackelford

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #15 on: May 10, , 08:07:17 am » I third the smoked glass question-also the tv+glass are at an angle if that make a difference.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #16 on: May 10, , 07:28:28 pm »

I've never been able to get it to work properly with the Sammy hunting games - Turkey Hunting USA, Big Buck Hunter, etc.  The shot is accurate in the center of the screen, but is off toward the edges.  If anyone has a fix for this, I'd be interested.

These types of games will require you in Mame to go to the service dip switch (tab button) and flip the switch for service mode, restart the game (f3). Then go through the calibration for the gun for that game. You have to do this for all Sammy games to be calibrated. This will be saved and will only have to do this once. Then switch off from service mode and restart.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #17 on: May 10, , 09:57:15 pm »

Talking about dedicated light gun cabinets what do you guys think about using the Wii as console?
I don't own one, but just noticed that there are quite a few interesting titles out there like Resident Evil etc...

hmm maybe... hack your wii and get your games on the hdd, get a hacked wii control so you can play some of your other games via a control panel (new super mario brios i.e.). REally though it would be just the same as doing it in your living room if you just want it for the shooting games since you will be using wii motes.

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Re: Guns & Mame - Some questions

« Reply #18 on: May 10, , 10:21:02 pm »

These types of games will require you in Mame to go to the service dip switch (tab button) and flip the switch for service mode, restart the game (f3). Then go through the calibration for the gun for that game. You have to do this for all Sammy games to be calibrated. This will be saved and will only have to do this once. Then switch off from service mode and restart.

Thanks for the reply.  Knowing someone else has it working will motivate me to keep trying.
Even in the calibration screen in service mode of the Sammy games, things are wonky.

The shot registers about a 1/4" below and to the right at the center.
I did this with a mouse & turned the crosshairs on in mame.  If I move the arcade (+) crosshairs to the center & hit the trigger, it just throws things farther off.
I then aimed about 1/4" below and to the right of center until I got the arcade crosshairs to line up with the mame crosshairs.  
It doesn't seem to get any worse towards the edges of the screen.
The game seems playable with the mouse & mame crosshairs now.  
(I hadn't tried it with the mouse before)
Hopefully what I learned will translate over to the light gun.
« Last Edit: May 10, , 10:30:56 pm by BadMouth »